Talk:Horses (album)

Assessment comment

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Comment(s)

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Start class: Y A reasonably complete infobox Y A lead section giving an overview of the album Y A track listing Y Reference to at least primary personnel by name (must specify performers on the current album; a band navbox is insufficient) Y Categorisation at least by artist and year C class: Y All the start class criteria Y A reasonably complete infobox, including cover art Y At least one section of prose (in addition to the lead section) Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs Y A "personnel" section listing performers, including guest musicians. B class: Y All the C class criteria Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians N No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources. Y No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS Could use some-resorting and some re-citing in some sections. Namely Inspiration needs to back up the first few claims. Then change it back to a B! Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 13:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 18:16, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Horses (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Holiday56 (talk · contribs) 02:34, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 13:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, surprised no one picked Horses—great and heartfelt album. If you still interested to work on through it again (a little bit), I found small things to improve, readability-wise and simplicity-wise. I'm new to this thing, so some of the suggestion can end up being my stylistic, which improve phrasing/structure specifically for me. We can discuss these choices. - LastJabberwocky (talk) 13:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lead

Horses is the debut studio album by American musician Patti Smith. It was released by Arista Records on November 10, 1975. A fixture of the mid-1970s underground rock music scene in New York City, Smith signed to Arista in April 1975 and recorded Horses with her band at Electric Lady Studios that September. She enlisted former Velvet Underground member John Cale to produce the album. With Horses, Smith drew upon her backgrounds in rock music and poetry, aiming to create an album combining both forms. → Horses is the debut studio album by American musician Patti Smith, released on November 10, 1975 through Arista Records. Smith, supported by her backing band, recorded the album at Electric Lady Studios in September 1975, choosing former Velvet Underground member John Cale as the album's producer. Removed "A fixture of the mid-1970s underground rock music scene in New York City" because it doesn't seem to be a crucial fact about Smith (article focuses on it for 1-2 sentences), and most of the bands who sign a deal with a record naturally prove themselves beforehand. Merged brief sentences into longer sentences to make the lead less fragmented.

I think you should merge "With Horses, Smith drew upon her backgrounds in rock music and poetry, aiming to create an album combining both forms." with the second paragraph discussing Smith's inspiration/thought behind the record. Probably before "Smith's lyrics were alternately rooted in her own personal experiences, particularly with her family, and in more fantastical imagery."

Background

By 1975, Patti Smith and her band had established themselves as a popular act within the New York City underground rock music scene through their frequent live performances in the previous year. A highly attended two-month residency at the New York City club CBGB with the band Television in early 1975 further increased Smith's profile. → Patti Smith and her backing band gave frequent rock music live performances throughout 1974, and by 1975 they had established themselves as a popular act within the New York City underground scene, especially elevated in early 1975 by the highly attended two-month residency at the New York City club CBGB with the post-rock band Television.
I put the facts in chronological order for streamline/simplification purposes.

Having written poetry for several years before becoming a musician, and noting that she entered music simply because she thought "the presentation of poetry wasn't vibrant enough", Smith said that her original goal for her debut album was to merge poetry and rock music, which then developed into a "larger mission" to "pump blood back into the heart of rock'n'roll." → Smith have been writing poetry for several years before becoming a musician, and entered music industry simply because she thought "the presentation of poetry wasn't vibrant enough". When recording her debut album, she primarily wanted to merge poetry and rock music, which then developed into a "larger mission" to "pump blood back into the heart of rock'n'roll."

Recording

Arista arranged for Smith to begin recording Horses in August 1975. Smith at first suggested that the album should be produced by Tom Dowd. Plans were made to book studio time with Dowd at Criteria in Miami, but these were complicated by his relationship with rival label Atlantic Records. Smith had a change of heart and instead set out to enlist Welsh musician John Cale, formerly of the New York City rock band the Velvet Underground, to produce Horses, for she was impressed by the raw sound of his solo albums, such as 1974's Fear. Cale accepted, having previously seen Smith perform live, in addition to being an acquaintance of her bassist Ivan Král. → Smith and her record agreed she would start recording her debut album in August 1975. Smith at first suggested that the album should be produced by Tom Dowd, and already made plans to book studio time with Dowd at Criteria in Miami, but the agreement got stalled by the complicated relationship between Dowd and his rival label Atlantic Records. Smith had a change of heart and instead set out to enlist Welsh musician John Cale, formerly of the New York City rock band the Velvet Underground, to produce Horses after she was impressed by the raw sound of his solo albums, such as 1974's Fear. Cale accepted, already familiar with the band, after attending one of Smith's live shows, and acquainted with her bassist Ivan Král.

Merge as the second paragraph Horses was recorded at Electric Lady Studios in New York City, with Smith retaining the same backing band with whom she performed live at the time—Jay Dee Daugherty on drums, Lenny Kaye on guitar, Ivan Král on bass guitar, and Richard Sohl on keyboards. Several of the album's songs were already fixtures of the band's sets at CBGB. Allen Lanier of Blue Öyster Cult and Tom Verlaine of Television participated in the recording sessions as guest musicians, performing on the songs "Elegie" and "Break It Up", respectively.
General recording information; to separate this information from info about Cale's involvement

The first studio session was held on September 2; Cale later recalled that the band initially "sounded awful" and played out of tune due to their use of damaged instruments, forcing him to procure the band new instruments before commencing recording. The differences between the work ethics of Cale, who was an experienced recording artist, and of Smith, who at this point was primarily a live performer, became apparent early on in recording, and were a source of tension between the two artists, who frequently argued in the studio. Kaye also pointed to their clashing musical visions for the album → The first studio session was held on September 2. Cale later recalled that the band initially "sounded awful" and played out of tune due to their use of damaged instruments, and Cale have to supply the band with the new instruments before commencing recording. The differences between the work-process of Cale, who was an experienced recording artist, and the process of Smith, who at this point was primarily a live performer, became apparent at early stages of recording, and were a source of tension between the two artists, who frequently clashed in the studio. Kaye also highlighted the irreconcilable differences between their musical visions for the album
Note: Changed argued to clashed. I don't the context, but I assume the arguments are an inherent part of a collaboration and isn't necessarily notable. A clash is a really tense argument, which is less usual and inherent.

Cale had also wished to augment the band's playing on certain songs with strings, but Smith vehemently opposed this idea. → Cale wished to augment the band's the sound of string instruments on certain songs from the album, but Smith vehemently opposed this idea.
I think you should merge this paragraph (third paragraph) with "For several years after the album's release, Smith often downplayed Cale's contributions to Horses and suggested that she and her band had ignored his suggestions entirely. In a 1976 interview with Rolling Stone, Smith described her experience:"

Do we know which "Several of the album's songs were already fixtures of the band's sets at CBGB"? Could be interesting.

Musical style

Consequence's Lior Phillips noted that the minimalist quality of the album's music "matched the tone of" the nascent punk rock genre, which had emerged in New York City in the mid-1970s and counted among its practitioners Smith, Television, and fellow CBGB regulars such as the Ramones. → Consequence's Lior Phillips noted that the minimalist quality of the album's music "matched the tone of" the nascent punk rock genre, which had emerged in New York City in the mid-1970s, and counted Smith, Television, and fellow CBGB regulars such as the Ramones, among its practitioners.

Lyrics; artwork

These ones are already great—dense with information, but nicely written to navigate all these information!

Release

On September 18, 1975, the same day that they finished recording Horses, Smith and her band performed a live show in support of the upcoming album at an Arista convention held at the New York City Center, where they were personally introduced by Clive Davis. → On September 18, 1975, the same day that they finished recording Horses, Smith and her band performed a promotional live concert at an Arista convention held at the New York City Center, where they were personally introduced by Clive Davis.

Plagiarism

https://copyvios.toolforge.org/ Gives false positive], mostly complaining about the long quote that starts with "My picking John was about as arbitrary as picking Rimbaud."

External links status and source quality

All external links either active or archived Y

The sources are reliable per WP:GUARDIAN and statements are verifiable per WP:ABOUTSELF. Y

"PR Newswire" turns out to be unreliable per WP:GUARDIAN  Not done

Stability

No edit disputes in the last 14 days. Y

Broadness

Article does not veer off topic and covers all aspects of the album. Y