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Talk:Shroud of Turin

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Former featured articleShroud of Turin is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 25, 2004.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 15, 2004Featured article candidatePromoted
November 29, 2007Featured article reviewDemoted
October 23, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article


    New dating

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    Why isn't this on the article? Most recent, peer reviewed, academically published

    https://www.mdpi.com/2571-9408/5/2/47 98.4.89.168 (talk) 03:49, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    It's been discussed here many times; you can find past discussions of it in the archives. For starters, MDPI is not a reliable source. See WP:MDPI. There is an extended discussion of this particular paper at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 375#RfC: MDPI/Heritage, and in Talk:Shroud of Turin/Archive 19#Wide Angle X-Ray Scattering, Talk:Shroud of Turin/Archive 21 among other places. --Srleffler (talk) 05:00, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Why is McCrone's theory given undue weight?

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    • (From the lede) The microscopist Walter McCrone found, based on his examination of samples taken in 1978 from the surface of the shroud using adhesive tape, that the image on the shroud had been painted with a dilute solution of red ochre pigment in a gelatin medium. McCrone found that the apparent bloodstains were painted with vermilion pigment, also in a gelatin medium.[5] McCrone's findings were disputed by other researchers and the nature of the image on the shroud continues to be debated.

    Given that there are numerous conflicting theories about the shroud, it isn't appropriate to select one, mention their findings in the lede to the exclusion of all others, and only acknowledge at the end of the para that those findings are disputed. Not good enough. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 06:35, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    It's not a theory. He found those pigments. "Other researchers" may well be the STURP cranks who "dispute" everything that points to the Shroud being anything else but a 2000-year old miraculous Jesus selfie. I cannot access the source. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:42, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    He says he found those pigments. Others obviously disagree with him. But whether he did or didn't find what he says he found, is not the point. We're not interested in "the truth" here, just in the verifiability of the info we present. It's fine to mention his research findings, but not in such a prominent place as the lede. That is, unless we also mention in the lede the other theories and their supporters. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 10:45, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Divine Deception by Laidler

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    I cannot find any reception for that book although it is a quarter of a century old. Is it WP:DUE? From the descriptions on sites that want to sell it, it seems to be all conspiracy theories. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    I chanced upon this book in a second-hand shop recently, having never heard of it previously. It's exceptionally well written and his conclusions - which I don't necessarily accept - are well argued. He goes to considerable trouble to discuss the principal alternative theories and explains in detail why, in his opinion, none of them hold water. He also convincingly demonstrates that the head and the torso are from different people. I've come across this notion previously, but it's never been explained so clearly, in my experience. A very thought-provoking read. I'm stunned the Shroud community seem to be unaware of it. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 10:54, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I have reverted the edit that added it. It also seems undue to me. The book is on the Internet archive. The preface starts with the author saying Jesus is descended from the line of the pharao Akhenaten. Jesus was ritually decapitated and his head embalmed. This head was then discovered by the Knights Templar beneath the Temple who worshipped it as Baphomet. They buried it under Rosslyn Chappel.... The shroud. Rolluik (talk) 13:16, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously an expert as he's uncovered so many amazing previously unknown things. AND he was a tv producer and cameraman. Doug Weller talk 13:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    He is also salty that he wasn't allowed to dig under Rosslyn Chappel based on his "evidence". But no worries there is a secret tunnel so the head isn't there anymore. Frankly it reads like an author who wants to connect multiple Christian cinematic universes together. Rolluik (talk) 13:29, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]